Jim Murphy

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Thursday 11 October, 2007

Moving away from the constitutional approach

In the press this week, I read the claim that the UK Government has accepted that the Reform Treaty is the same as the old Constitutional Treaty. We don’t, because it isn’t.

All countries of the European Union have agreed that the Constitution has been abandoned. My own view is that Europe will not now in my lifetime have a constitution.

All EU countries have declared that the constitutional approach has been abandoned. Everyone has moved away from the constitution but the UK has moved away more than any other country.

I recently met the President of the European Parliament, Hans Gert Poettering. He is a real friend of the UK and a conservative politician. He observed that because of the deal that the UK has secured, much of the substance of the Reform Treaty simply won't apply in Britain. As he wrote in a letter to the Telegraph in July, "compared to the draft Constitution, the Reform Treaty involves a de facto British opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights, as well as a much wider British exemption in Justice and Home Affairs (JHA) than previously conceded."

Getting Europe back to work

Coming back to the question that I posed in my last post - how do we get Europe back to work? - I was pleased to note that the European Commission's Review of Small and Medium Enterprise policy, published last week, recognised the importance of SMEs as a driver of employment growth in Europe. There are around 23 million SMEs across the EU, accounting for around 75 million jobs. In some sectors, they account for as much as 80% of all jobs.

It's crucial that governments across the EU support a strong enterprise culture, and an environment in which new businesses can flourish. This is an area where effective EU action can build on the work of national governments, through cutting red tape, improving access to markets and supporting investment in innovation and research.

I was also interested to see a recent Eurobarometer poll report positive attitudes towards entrepreneurship amongst young people across Europe, particularly in the new member states. Fostering creativity and potential in young people is more important than ever in ensuring we can meet the new challenges in a globalised economy.

Healthcare in France

Several of you have raised the issue of changes in eligibility for health care services in France, which will affect early retirees to France from other European countries, including the UK. I appreciate that this is a matter of urgent concern for many people.

The Department of Health in the UK and the British Embassy in Paris are in contact with the French authorities on this issue, and we will seek further clarification of what the implications will be for UK nationals. I understand that the French government has now decided that for those people already living in France the proposed changes to healthcare eligibility will not take effect until 31 March 2008.

You can find out more by visiting the British Embassy website or by getting in touch with the Department for Work and Pensions Overseas Health Benefits Helpline on +44 191 218 1999.

Posted at 14:57 11 October 2007 by Jim Murphy | Comments[51]

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I am afraid that you are being misinformed by the British Embassy in Paris and the Department of Health in the UK. There are a group of people already living in France who will be affected by these changes long before 31st March 2008. These people are currently subscribed to the French healthcare system by way of an E106 and will be expelled from the system as soon as their E106 expires.

Posted by Glyn Davies on October 12, 2007 at 12:06 PM BST #

I was going to make the same point as Glynn about E106 holders. They have been given no 'grace period' by the French. However, the UK Government could remedy this today by extending all E106s which will expire in this 'grace period' until the end of the 'grace period' i.e. 31 March 2008

Posted by Frank on October 12, 2007 at 12:59 PM BST #

Please can you obtain rapid clarification from the French authorities on the position of people who are able to claim permanent residence. The French 'point d'information' does not mention this but the British Embassy statement does. brAs someone with an ' affection longue duree' developed since moving to France I like many others am very worried.I need medication for survival and as things appear will have no health care entitlement in France or in the UK. where I no longer have a home despite following the law and paying contributions to the French system.

Posted by Helen on October 16, 2007 at 04:13 PM BST #

How do you reconcile the Budget proposal to increase Capital Gains Tax from 10 to 18 with the above statement...brbr"It's crucial that governments across the EU support a strong enterprise culture, and an environment in which new businesses can flourish..."brbrOr is this "Don't do as we do, do as we say"?br

Posted by Madasafish on October 17, 2007 at 03:05 PM BST #

The French have not been fair. In 2000 they stated all of us with Private Health policies MUST join the French sysytem We complied. Now they have changed again and we have to obtain private medical insurance again. The cost are so much higher, we are older. Existing medical condition not covered. Does UK treat the French with retrospective laws? Please help us we have real problem. Advice last week British Embassy say those resident five years no problem. THis week French Government, say it applies to ALL. Cost of orivate cover now so high. Should I have broke law in 2000 and refused to join French System? Sure advice from you would be NO. What do we do now?

Posted by Philip Pearce on October 22, 2007 at 10:25 AM BST #

Mr Murphy,You say you will "seek further clarification" the reality is those of us Brits who have come to live in France and have joined their health system , paying all that is expected of us are now about to be kicked out .Those of us with existing illness will not be able to get private health care. For my part ,I am considering returning to the UK. We are looking to you as a minister to Europe to urgently press our case as time is running out.

Posted by K.Fllynn on October 22, 2007 at 10:40 PM BST #

How can it be morally right that a British family of 5 who has lived officially in France for 9 years, paying all their social charges and supporting themsevles financially, can be denied their continual access to health care under the social security system? Simply because they have revenue from letting houses renovated at their own expense of course to French families, rather than revenue from being employed or owning a business. And we have no rights to use the NHS either! That's well timed, thank you very much France, since the children now need help with higher education costs - they don't need their parents to spend this on a costly private health policy. Jim Murphy, please understand and fight our cause. I'm prioritising my children's higher education costs not a costly private health policy for us so I will have to chance it. Of course I'm now legally obliged to buy private health care but I won't. So are the gendarmes going to escort me to the border when I don't have any health cover? After 9 years officially resident in France?!

Posted by Penny on October 23, 2007 at 09:43 AM BST #

We are 2 British sisters aged 16 and 18 studying for our Bac at lycee in france so it's too late to go back to the UK to continue our education there - we've spent half our life in France now. Our parents will be chucked out of the French social security system in march because they have income from rentals rather than being "salaried". This means we'll lose our health cover too, even though Mum and Dad have paid their social security contributions for the last 9 years. And without health cover we won't be getting a uni place in france as this is a requirement for entry. Mr Murphy, what do we do? Does anyone care that this French directive doesn't only affect early retirees but also families resident in France. Our parents weren't even allowed to buy private health care when we came to france, they HAD to join the system, yet now the french gov pulls this stunt virtually out of the blue and when people cant easily return to the uk cos they don't have a home or rights there anymore. But they'll still have to pay their social charges even though they can't be in the system.

Posted by Eva and Rosie on October 23, 2007 at 11:15 AM BST #

If the social security system is bankrupt in France it's not just because other EU citizens retiring early are using the French health care system. It's also because many people in France work on the black at the same time as claiming unemployment benefit. This is a widespread practice in a country with such high unemployment levels. But foreigners are an easy target because their own governments will probably not think it worthwhile to upset the French too much on an issue which doesn't affect that many of its citizens. Yet when EU citizens need to get cured of cancer or some other disease of middle age, they get chucked out of the system just when they need it the most, after paying thru the nose in contributions for years. So will you prove me wrong, Mr Murphy, and speak up for us, ensuring that the French honour the agreement negotiated for residents who have lived in France for at least 5 years? Because the local health offices are not going to honour it, at least not in my case, they won't even discuss the issue with me any more.

Posted by Clare on October 23, 2007 at 12:03 PM BST #

I'm a 20 year old student with both British and French nationality, studying law in Montpellier but I took out French nationality recently after having lived in France with my family since the age of 11. The rest of my family are British citizens. So I won't be affected by the health changes for British citizens in France, even though I'm also British! I do feel it's very unfair for my sisters who are not French but have been in France as long as i have. I wonder how they'll stay in France now, even though they were just little children when they came to France. This directive puts a whole question mark over my parents continued residence in France. It's a shame but it looks like I will be left on my own here in France if they have to return to the UK because they can't afford private health care they are helping pay for me at university so it's really bad timing for them. And I don't think it's appropriate for my parents to apply for French citizenship just to get their health care - surely a civilised society shouldn't be treating fellow EU citizens in this disgraceful manner especially if they have a pre-existing condition. This whole ill thought out policy smacks of a banana republic mentality. I wouldn't have voted for Sarko if I'd known his party had this up their sleeve. This wrecks the notion of a united Europe, it's very divisive and gives the impression to the French that the British are a burden on French society. Sure they are some spongers but the majority of these mostly middle aged British are contributing to the system and spending a considerable amount in the French economy.

Posted by Anna on October 23, 2007 at 01:15 PM BST #

Today I visited CPAM in Angouleme to enquire about my health cover.brI have been lawfully resident in France for 6 years have been paying for health care via CMU since my E106 ran out 4 years ago.brI can prove via my titre de sejour when I arrived in France.brI was told in no uncertain terms that my health cover via CMU will run out on 31st March 2008 and I will have to find private health assurance.I will no longer be entitled to cover via CMU.I was handed a letter with this information.brI pointed out the information on the British Embassy website implied that after 5 years residence I was entitled to continueing cover under CMU brThe CPAM reiterated that I had until 31st March 2008 and there were no exeptions for inactives.brYou tell us to visit the Embassy website but it appears to contain inaccurate information.You tell us to contact the DPW I did this and they say they have no information exept that people who have resided for over 5 years in France may have the right to remain in CMU.brbut the French authorities with whom we are having to deal with just say Non brWe now have just over 5 months before this kicks in brSurely it cannot take that long for clarification to be sought by your Government,and even at the moment to update the Embassy website with the true position. br br

Posted by Ian McKillop on October 23, 2007 at 05:31 PM BST #

Thanks to this european directive my husband and I will become "illegal aliens" on the 31st March. By removing our right to state healthcare the french are also, at a stroke, removing our rights to residency in their country. This retrospective act is morally reprehensible, all the more so as it applies only to those people who are unfortunate enough to be citizens of the EU. I trust that the British Government is making plans to assist those deportees who, through no fault of their own, are forced to return to the UK

Posted by Anna-Marie on October 23, 2007 at 06:05 PM BST #

Mr Murphy,brbrIt really is about time the Foreign Office responded to the United Kingdom citizens who are facing expulsion from France because they may be unable to obtain private healthcare. The lack of clear and ACCURATE information seems to be a symptom of the British Governments lack of concern to the plight of its citizens abroad.

Posted by Glyn Davies on October 23, 2007 at 06:53 PM BST #

The EU permanent residency laws supposedly cannot be "opted-out of". However, France seems to be deciding to ignore them and the UK government seems to be "seeking clarification". Maybe time they actually did something and started representing their citizens. People are already experiencing difficulties yet the FCO continues to "seek clarification". The French action has nothing to do with saving money as it will probably cost more to administer than it will save but has to do with Sarkozy's hate of the early retired.

Posted by Ian on October 23, 2007 at 11:15 PM BST #

I checked the web site for the British Embassy in Paris today and it appears they have removed the link concerning the changes to the French Healthcare system from their home page. Mr Murphy, will you please ensure the embassy are still actively arguing our case to remain in the French Health system. These are extremely worrying times especially for those people with pre-existing medical conditions who will not be able to get proper healthcare coverage.

Posted by Richard Grace on October 24, 2007 at 09:45 AM BST #

Before the presidential election, I read Sarkozy's book "Temoignage". Here he clearly states that he doesn't want to see villages inhabited by the British. Even if we win this particular battle, there may be more moves afoot to discourage the British from living in France. I no longer feel secure in France, nor welcome any longer. I don't feel I have much choice now but to give my French tenants their notice, sell their homes and take my capital back to the UK.

Posted by Penelope on October 25, 2007 at 09:23 AM BST #

To Richard Grace - the British Embassy haven't removed their notice on their Paris website which says that there is a 5 year exception - it's still there this morning giving many people false hope. When I emailed the Embassy yesterday and asked for a reply other emails have been ignored I was told that this information IS accurate. It clearly isn't though. If Embassy officials were to read this blog, they'd know it isn't accurate as some of us have already been told we'll lose our cover in March even if we've been here over 5 years officially. I've also got the feeling that Mr Jim Murphy is far too busy doing other things to be bothered with us - I wonder if he or his assistants are even reading this blog. I doubt it. Let's see if he deals with this issue on the Webchat at 16.45 BST today. But what we all need to understand is that we're probably too small a group of people for the British Government to be too bothered about. They'll just say we should go back to Britain I suppose. Not an easy option when you've got children in education in France and properties to sell up. In the meantime if you can't afford to go private, you'll be considered to be in France illegally. But you'll still have to pay your social charges whether you're illegal or not! Shame on France for treating sick people like this, and shame on our own government for not sorting this out sooner.

Posted by Penny on October 25, 2007 at 12:56 PM BST #

Oh and another thing I forgot to add in my last message - I object to being classed 'an unreasonable burden' on the French state when I provide housing at low rentals to French families. If that's how the French state sees me, they needn't worry. I'll sell up and these families can find somewhere else to live.

Posted by Penny on October 25, 2007 at 01:04 PM BST #

I have just "listened" to your web chat and the answer you gave on this issue was totally inadequate. The FCO has already received assurances from the French on this issue - and they turned out to be rubbish the French just "changed their minds". What good are further clarifications ? The action is illegal under EU law 5 year permanent residence laws. They need to be told this in no uncertain terms and that their actions will not be tolerated. Time for some action rather than this "seeking clarification" that goes on forever whilst British people resident in France are already in difficulty.

Posted by Ian on October 25, 2007 at 06:00 PM BST #

Ian is right. We have just started a website : www.frenchhealthissues.eu to campaign against these changes. Within three days we have received dozens of e-mails from people who are terrified of what will happen to them. They want action, not words.

Posted by Deborah Dudley on October 25, 2007 at 06:19 PM BST #

Mr Murphy, are you reading these comments. Do you really know what is happening and do you really care. I have paid into the NHS for 36 years and have also paid into the French health system. I am a 54 year old diabetic diagnosed since leaving UK who cannot get insurance and cannot afford to pay in full privately for medication. I cannot move back to the UK as it would take several years to sell our house a very common timescale here and in the meantime I am left stranded without insurance, medication or health care.

Posted by Denise on October 26, 2007 at 01:30 PM BST #

Most people have legally moved to France and abided by the law pertaining at the time. brbr"IF YOU ARE RESIDENT IN FRANCE YOU ARE OBLIGED BY LAW [99-641 & 95-116] TO BE AFFILIATED TO THE STATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THERE ARE SEVERE PENALTIES FOR NOT DOING SO AND THE COVER PROVIDED BY THE STATE MAY NOT BE REPLACED BY PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE POLICIES". brbrTo apply this legislation retrospectively is immoral and inhuman and will cause great hardship for many. As our Minister for Europe, I would like assurance that you are fighting this proposed implementation aggressively on our behalf.br

Posted by Clementine on October 27, 2007 at 12:04 PM BST #

Has the UK Government given any thought to the affects on the UK Health Service should all expats who are no longer able to claim health care from France move back. Most will be destitute, a terrific drain on UK.

Posted by Lyn on October 27, 2007 at 01:06 PM BST #

Dear Mr Murphy, just read your piece on the healthcare issue in which you say we should be "getting in touch with the Department for Work and Pensions Overseas Health Benefits Helpline" Well I spoke to an actual PERSON who has a name in this department 5I have the ladies name but will NOT disclose it as I do not have her permission to do so and SHE STATED that there is CURRENTLY NOTHING at all happening with regard to this matter it is all TALK!! brWhat is more she told me that NOTHING is likely to happen for at least 6 months!! And there is currently NO proposal on the table at this time as she nor her colleagues have any paperwork on this matter. Care to comment about this???brI personally am a WAR PENSIONER who has had to retire early due to bad health. Some of this is down to my ACCEPTED illness and some due to a condition under which I am in receipt of invalidity benefits. And NO-ONE can tell me HOW this will effect me at all!!! I am also a Diabetic!! So have three separate conditions if you like which SHOULD mean I would get health care at a zero cost in the UK. But FRANCE????brbrRegardsbrbrChris Goddard

Posted by Chris Goddard on October 27, 2007 at 03:04 PM BST #

Mr MurphybrI have emailed the Prime Minister twice concerning the enforcement of this EU Directive by N.Sarkozy.brI have been polite and simply asked what he and his government were doing to safe guard the health of UK ciizens in France.brI also pointed out that I am a "War Pensioner" clased as at the moment of being 40 disabled, having been retired early on medical grounds from my UK employment, and told I am unfit to work from the DWP, I then according to the rules of France in November 2006, moved here, lock stock and barrellbrbrCan you tell me how I am going to obtain medical insurance for my illnesses, one of which has been recently diagnosed in France "Emphysema" which has been connected with my other illnesses, of which the UK government have admitted liabilty in causing.brbrMy wife lost 35 of her pension, by taking early retirement to look after me in France, in my enforced retirement.brbrIt simple either the French provide health cover ofr us, or the UK keep extending the E106 and other forms to allow us to continue receiving health cover under the French system.brbrWe have paid our taxes, and continue to pay into the system through deductions from our pension incomes. this money from tax payers goes to paying our EU contributions, this big vast pot of money the EU has, which also pays the French farmers handsomely each year.brbrSomeone has to provide health cover for us, thats our "Right" for Gods sake if you commit a crime and are imprisoned, they get FREE healthcare,education,training etc etcbrbrWhat do decent law abiding citizens get from the UK government in their hour of need, A LONG SILENCE, not even the decency of REPLY.brbrI hope to god Mr Murphy you have some integrity about you, and fight for your UK citizens in France.

Posted by Kevin Hawkins on October 27, 2007 at 05:07 PM BST #

Jim,brPlease will you fight the corner for those of us affected by the changes in health care eligibility. For me, the biggest issue is that my E106 expires on 31st December 2007 and I am unable to find insurance cover that will include my cancer care medication, hospital visits etc and will not find such cover until I have finished treatment and check up's for 2 years. As I have a further 3 years medication, I will be excluded for a considerable period and thus have no cover should my illness or another cancer return. At 170 euros each month, plus hospital visits, the costs are unaffordable. I will try to find some work but with high unemployment here, it will not be easy. I thus have a terrible choice to make..return to UK or discontinue my medication and check-ups. This is after my partner and I worked in UK for 43 and 35 years. We have made our new life here and are happy and settled, returning to the UK is not really a viable option. We would be happy to pay into the healthcare system but this option is not open to us. Are we really part of a European community?brPlease will you use your influence to help achieve an outcome that does not leave expats in France so vulnerable. brThank you for reading this.

Posted by Judi Bourton on October 27, 2007 at 07:12 PM BST #

Unless the UK authorities wake up to this 5 yr residency situation then the only result will be an new sort of refugee landing in the UK THE TERMINALLY, SERIOUSLY SICK ONE,UK CITIZEN, DENIED HEALTHCARE IN FRANCE. What other alternatives do they have?brIts happened on a lesser extent before but this is far more serious.

Posted by john pawson on October 27, 2007 at 11:37 PM BST #

I am another early retiree who could have problems here. I am presently covered by an E121, but it could be lost at any time as it's for a mental condition rather than a physical one, and it's always hard to prove this kind of disability.brbrIf it is withdrawn, I shall be very hard pushed to afford full private health insurance.brbrWhen we moved here, I was in receipt of Incapacity Benefit, and checked before departure that I was genuinely entitled to it. I attended a Benefits Office personally, as I was having sleepless nights wondering if there was something I hadn't declared to the authorities. I was assured all was well.brbrShortly after, the IB was withdrawn anyway.brbrWe weren't relying on it, but its loss made a substantial difference.brbrWe knew we were financially OK, as my wife has an occupational pension, though a small one, to follow in four years' time, and of course our state pensions when the time comes. If we were frugal in the early years of living here, things could only get better later.brbrHow wrong could we be? Now the goalposts have been moved, and it seems we could be forced to move back to the UK. If we do, we will have to live with relatives, as there's no way we can now afford a decent property in the UK, given the moves in house prices. Also, like Denise above, there's no way we would quickly sell our house in France. The one next door, though a different kettle of fish from ours, has been on sale for four years. Two other houses in the village have been for sale for some months without enquiries.brbrIt's time the stereotype of the Brit in France as a well-off, middle class, wine-swilling, non-working, overweight, Volvo-driving, smug snob was well and truly nailed. We're largely ordinary people, some of whom are making a living here, whilst others, believing that they have paid all necessary dues and will therefore receive medical care from one country or the other, are simply trying to live a quiet life.brbrIs there anything wrong with that? We pay our dues. We're not sponging.

Posted by Paul on October 28, 2007 at 07:22 AM GMT #

What is someone to do who has supported themselves and their children to give them a better life in France to do when they take away the benefits of the healthcare system? when the floodgates to the UK are open to all and sundry and its the expats tax they paid in the UK that are paying for the immigrents their ?brFair or not ? brNot fair on the children or us adults who have ongoing previous medical problems who are not going to be able to be covered by private health cover at extortionate costs.

Posted by apple on October 28, 2007 at 05:48 PM GMT #

Jim, I'm type 2 diabetic, lived in France nearly four years, pay my contributions to French Healthcare based on the scale set by France, but from March 2008 will be 'kicked out' yes, kicked out to fend for myself, by virtue of france's decision. So, the drugs keeping me going will not be available. Will we then see British residents in France rolling round the streets, dying, for want of medical attention, but unable to afford to pay the private health insurer's premiums ? And are the UK Government going to stand and watch, till, the first person dies through withdrawal of health care. I paidand my wife 38 years into the NI scheme, and was given 2 years back from when I entered France. Now, from March we will be on our own, on the scrapheap because we dared to retire early ! Will you keep up the pressure on France to reverse this inhuman,immoral policy targeted at british expats and of course other EU members.brbrThanks for listeningbrbrJohn Southworth

Posted by john southworth on October 29, 2007 at 12:11 PM GMT #

So come along, Mr Murphy, are you going to let all these poor people know what the future holds for them? Will anything be done? We are waiting - and don't forget - we all are still able to vote for you or not! There are around 200,000 UK expats in France; do we count for nothing?

Posted by Deborah Dudley on October 29, 2007 at 03:49 PM GMT #

Dear Jim,brbrI am an English lawyer with a post graduate degree in EU law. I also have Type1 diabetes since my twenties.brbrI have now taken early retirement and intended to move to France next year. I have investments in the UK to fund my retirement and expected to be able to use the French healthcare system.brbrThe recent reforms mean that this may be impossible as it is very difficult to get private healthcare cover for this condition.brbrIn effect, I am being discriminated against on grounds of health contrary to the DDA and my free movement as an EU citizen as set out in the Treaty of Rome is being prevented.brbrI would be obliged if you could consider this matter and let me know what the British government intends to do about it.brbrAny French person with diabetes in the UK would receive treatment without any discrimination. There is an issue of reciprocity to be considered here.brbrYours,brbrStephen Hadfield

Posted by stephen hadfield on October 30, 2007 at 04:28 PM GMT #

I appreciate that contact is being made between the governments involved but time is getting short for those of us affected and we need help not discussion. We face no option but to sell up and go back to the Uk after having done all that was asked of us and more. Why wrer we put in this situation in the first place? We are being badly judged when all we did is obey the law and paid and are still paying into the French healthcare system and not getting anything for free!. We did do our homework before we came and did what was in place at that time. All that some of us have left after a lifetime of work is our self respect and that too looks as if it has gone.

Posted by Lynda Adcock on October 30, 2007 at 06:14 PM GMT #

I'm confused to say the least. The UK Embassy site says that if you have 5 years+ residency in France, then you will be entitled to cover under the french health care system. brSo, wanting ito hear it direct from the french themselves, I telephoned the English speaking french healthcare helpline today 0033 820 90 42 12 to ask if this was the case. Their response? They don't know, the french government has yet to make up it's mind and is unlikely to do so for some weeks yet.brCome on, now's the time for the UK government to stand up for our rights and 'encourage' the french to honour the rules which are so clearly laid down for all to see. If you have been resident in France for 5 years you acquire permanent resident status, which in turns entitles you to the same benefits as a french national. Will the UK government do nothing for its citizens abroad? Do our decades of contributions in tax and national insurance count for nothing? Don't let us down, there are thousands of people over here who need the health service to survive and don't have the money to fund private treatment. Many of us live on very small incomes, and if you let the french government get away with this, we will be completely without health care, either in France of the UK.

Posted by Liz on October 31, 2007 at 06:59 PM GMT #

My husband and I will loose the E106 cover from Jan 2008, I have a pre existing condition so will not have the luxury of private health cover. As a redundant member of the armed forces we pay tax and NI in the UK living in France, how can the UK government refuse Health care? We have no intention, at this time, to return to the UK but I understand if we did we would have no cover until we had been resident for 6 months.brWhile the UK government fumble in the dark and the French government finalise their policy, time is passing on. Will you please let me know if the UK Government are considering extending the E106's that expire in January 2008. This will allow a little more time for the dust to settle, the French government and the Financial services in the UK and France to get to grips with the new requirements. br

Posted by Macdonald on November 01, 2007 at 09:08 AM GMT #

Dear Jim, I am surprised by your statement that only "Several of you have raised the issue of changes in eligibility for health care services in France". Judging by the comments on this blog, the dozens of websites I have read and newpaper articles, these changes are a major problem for many people like myself and obviously causing serious stress to many thousands of UK citizens who decided to take advantage of the EU rights to live as an 'early retiree' 'inactif' in another EU country. brThere are two issues I would like to raise with you.br1 Regardless of whether France decides to close its Healthcare System to newcomers and gives fair warning such that it becomes a factor to consider when chosing to come to live in France or not, how can the criteria for one's right to residency be changed retrospectively? From the time we moved to France and for each of the last 6 years that we have lived here, we have received an official document stating that one of the conditions of residency is that we must be affiliated to the State Healthcare System and pay our contributions to it based on a percentage of our taxable income, which we have done. At the tine of entry to France, we also fulfilled all the other criterias required for residency. Now we are being told that a condition of residency is to have Comprehensive Private Healthcare Insurance instead! How can this be applied retrospectively when most people have some form of major or minor illness that will not be covered by new Insurance Policies and therefore can never obtain 'comprehensive' cover? I do not beleive that the EU legislation that the change hangs on was ever meant to be applied retrospectively, but this is happening to lots of residents. br2 Like many other UK citizens, my wife and I have paid NI contributions all our working lives from age 18 without a gap. If we return to the UK and become residents, without paying one penny more, we can receive full UK healthcare. If we were 65, we would be entitled to an E121. When this is registered in France, the British Government pays France a fixed sum per year per person for our healthcare. Why doesn't the British Govenment pay the difference to France between the contribution we make and the value of an E121 for us early retired? After all, we are not using up NHS funding or increasing waiting times or taking up hospital beds in the UK. Because we are under 65, is this 'inverse' age discrimination by the British Government maybe? If we no longer belong to the French or UK Health service, do we also lose our right to a EHIC and have to pay for that cover also? So many worms in so many cans!br I know the wheels move slowly but please Jim can you help to get a more reasonable and rational solution moving? brThanks in hopeful anticipation.

Posted by Brian Johnson on November 01, 2007 at 05:58 PM GMT #

The EU Signpost Service has told me thatbrArticle 24 of Directive 2004/38 states that: brbr“Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary law, all Union citizens residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the host Member State shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within the scope of the Treaty. The benefit of this right shall be extended to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have the right of residence or permanent residence.” brbrThis means that any derogation to the principle of equal treatment must be explicitly stated in the Treaty or in secondary law which includes EU legislative measures such as Directives, Regulations and Decisions as interpreted by the case law of the European Court of Justice. brbrAn example of such a derogation is contained in Paragraph 2 of Article 24, which limits the right to equal treatment as regards “entitlement to social assistance during the first three months of residence or” and assistance by way of “student grants or student loans”. brbrArticle 7 of the Directive lays down a right to residence for periods in excess of 3 months for students, workers and self-sufficient persons. It does not lay down any exceptions other than paragraph 4 of Article 7 in respect of family members who qualify for a right to reside with a student. . brbrIn respect to your right to a European Health Insurance Card, you should know that you have a right to obtain this card from the health service of the country where you reside. This means you must be registered with the social security institution of the place where you reside before being able to claim an EHIC. brbrSo I can't get state healthcare or even an EHIC CEAM in France because I can't register with the French state health system a ruling which the EU Signpost Service says contravenes Article 24 of the EU Directive!

Posted by Frank on November 01, 2007 at 06:27 PM GMT #

Why can't an E106 be issued for 5 years and the holder repay any cost to the UK of the annual payment to France which exceeds the holder's current entitlement?brbrAfter 5 years residence people can join the French system - so the UK Govt says but the French are currently rejecting people with over 5 years residence.

Posted by Frank on November 01, 2007 at 06:31 PM GMT #

We hear from you that talks are going on and then I discover today that the health attache at the British Embassy in Paris is away for two weeks and in her absence nobody is prepared to answer any queries. So what discussions are going on precisely and with whom? Having key staff away at a time when many people's futures - and possibly their lives - are at stake is frankly disgusting.

Posted by Deborah Dudley on November 02, 2007 at 12:00 PM GMT #

We moved lock stock and barrel to France in 2005 having been forced to take early retirement. We are financially independant of France and contribute to the Health System. Our Carte Vitale will be withdrawn in Mar 2008 and we cannot afford private health care. We cannot afford or want to return to England. How can such Draconian legislation be made retrospectively? We have a 'legitimate expectation' that the terms of residency now we are here should not be changed. The implementation of Article 7 by France is totally unreasonable. My father fought for both France and Poland, now his son is being discriminated against by the very people he fought for!brChris Scantlebury

Posted by Chris Scantlebury on November 02, 2007 at 04:33 PM GMT #

Mr Murphy,brCan you please tell what the purpose of the British Embassy in France is. It charges a premium for renewing a British passport which is intended to be used to 'provide consular assistance to distressed British nationals'. As you can see from this blog there are many distressed British nationals as a result of the healthcare changes in France, which the British Embassy is failing. Can we have out money back.

Posted by Glyn on November 02, 2007 at 08:14 PM GMT #

Dear Mr. MurphybrbrRE: Withdrawal of French Healthcare for UK Ex-patsbrbrI am encouraged to read your recent comments regarding a personal involvement in pursuing a satisfactory outcome to this lamentable affair. Please may I implore that you retain a personal involvement and not wholly delegate to the FCO, a move which in my opinion would just result in inaction. It is well-known that the FCO exists merely to retain good relations with their counterparts; and that that objective precludes distasteful confrontation, even to protect the rights of UK citizens.brbrSo, setting aside the dubious aspects of the proposed legislation vis-à-vis the rights of EU citizens for fair treatment in Member States, as you rightly state, it is in particular the retrospective aspect which needs to be challenged most fervently. At the end of the day the French Government may interpret EU legislation as they deem fit, but the retrospective element is morally corrupt as it unfairly penalises all those who have carefully considered and costed their retirement and made their moves based upon the Law at the time.brbrThe retrospective withdrawal of rights is so iniquitous that I suggest it may be a rather obvious bargaining chip, with the French really seeking for the UK Government to extend the life of the E106 from two to five years. The obvious riposte from our perspective is that the Government do so, but only from a date AFTER the conclusion of discussions; and that the French Government confirms the 5yr residency qualification for the right to then immediately join the CMU.brbrThis would involve some cost to the UK Government, but as the great majority of those affected will be fully paid up & taxed in the UK, there is actually no loss to the Exchequer - just less of a gain.brbrI wish you a successful and speedy resolution to your discussions; and close by taking this opportunity to further publicise the excellent lobbying website to which all of those party to this affair should both access and seek to contribute:brbra rel="nofollow" target="_new" href="http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu"http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/abrbrNICK GREENWOOD

Posted by NICK GREENWOOD on November 03, 2007 at 06:00 PM GMT #

Jim Murphy says on this blog "You can find out more by visiting the British Embassy website or by getting in touch with the Department for Work and Pensions Overseas Health Benefits Helpline". Acutally you can't find out more if you're one of those with over 5 years' residence in France. No one knows and there is no further info or update either from Mr Murphy or from the British Embassy. There is still a big question mark over whether the French will honour EU law on residency or not. If they decide not to, and make this directive retrospective for all, then the European ideal is well and truly over. The right for EU citizens to reside in other EU countries is a cornerstone of the EU. It's not just an ideal. Some of us actually believed in it. It shouldn't be ignored just because there aren't that many of us. We're still waiting Mr Murphy!

Posted by Penny on November 04, 2007 at 03:49 PM GMT #

I have read the comments about the "5 year residency rule".brI believe the problem is more fundamental than that.brThere are thousands of Brits & other EU citizens, who came to France , relying on the EU rules allowing full mobility & basic healthcare for all EU citizens !brThe French, in applying this legislation retrospectively ,are targetting British "inactifs".brAre laws which can be applied retrospectively actually legal let alone morally acceptable ?brCome on Mr Murphy ! ,Let's get this legislation challenged ! brWhat good an EU ,that ones country of birth will not provide cover 45 years payment into NHS & neither will ones country of residence i.e "Stateless"

Posted by Kenneth on November 04, 2007 at 04:03 PM GMT #

Nick Greenwood writes that it's well known that the FCO doesn't like to upset their counterparts with confrontation so he thinks they won't do much on our behalf. I fear he may be right. After all, they are now completely ignoring this blog and emails addressed to them, and have battened down the hatches at the British Embassy. I'm sure they think we're all very annoying, and it's all our own fault for coming to live in France. What did we expect? The FCO also appears to be filtering out comments submitted to this blog. For example, I posted a suggestion that expats should register to vote in the UK, and I mentioned the name of my MP there as I was on the electoral roll. If we don't like the way Jim Murphy is handling this or not we can bear this in mind at a general election. My MP just happens to be the leader of the opposition so maybe that's why my comments weren't published. But is this really a contravention of the terms and conditions? Mentioning a politician's name? Or suggesting that people vote? Not sure what was so wrong with saying that - after all, isn't this what democracy is all about?

Posted by Penny on November 05, 2007 at 12:16 PM GMT #

There are indications that the French Government is considering a change in its policy to exclude some existing residents from the need to seek private healthcare see: ‘Point d'information: Affiliation à la CMU pour les ressortissants britanniques inactifs’ at a rel="nofollow" target="_new" href="http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm"http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm/a. For more information please see: a rel="nofollow" target="_new" href="http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/11/5/"http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/11/5//abrbrHowever, there are concerns that the criterion to be adopted will be that a person must have become affiliated to the CMU [part of the French healthcare system] on or before 30 September 2007. Whilst this would be a welcome relief to many it would create a serious inequality which could be addressed before the announcement was made.brbrIf the criterion is to be based on affiliation to the CMU and not residence then those resident in France on ‘E’ forms e.g. E106; 121; 109 will not be included. Once the cover of their E form becomes invalid e.g. E106 expires or E121 eligibility on incapacity grounds is lost then those residents would have to seek commercial health insurance. This could create a situation where, for example, a person resident in France for two-and-a-half years on an E106 would not be entitled to French state healthcare while someone who had not qualified for an E106 because of inadequate UK National Insurance contributions and had only arrived in France in the autumn of 2007 and had then affiliated to the CMU on or before 30 September 2007 would be entitled to state healthcare. This would be inequitable.brbrThe remedy to this would be to persuade the French Government that the criterion should be based on RESIDENCE in France on or before 30 September and not affiliation to the CMU. brbrThis would not only be equitable but logical as the French legislation brbr• ‘LOI no 2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006 relative à l’immigration et à l’intégration’ brand br• ‘Décret n° 2007-371 du 21 mars 2007 relatif au droit de séjour en France des citoyens de l'Union européenne, des ressortissants des autres Etats parties à l'Espace économique européen et de la Confédération suisse ainsi que des membres de leur famille’ brand br• the original EU Directive 2004/38EC brbrare all RESIDENCE related legislation and not ‘healthcare’ legislation. It is, therefore, more logical to create a criterion based on residence rather than access to ‘healthcare’.brbrIt is felt that it would be a more constructive approach to lobby the French Government on this issue BEFORE any official announcement is made rather than afterwards and your support in doing this now is sought as a matter of urgency.br

Posted by Frank on November 06, 2007 at 10:35 AM GMT #

Time is running out for people like me. My E106 runs out in less than two months and I will no longer be able to access French healthcare.brbrFollowing surgery for cancer, chemotherapy and redundancy in 2005, I set up a business in the UK that I could manage online and, in February 2006, I moved to France. I conformed to all the conditions of residency, as laid down by the French authorities, when I arrived here and I continue to pay tax in the UK as well as in France. brbrI had private medical insurance when I arrived in France. I only cancelled this cover in June 2007 because I had been accepted into the French health system and was informed by my local French social security office CPAM that I didn’t need it because I would remain in the system when my E106 ran out. Since the news broke on the expat internet forums in early September, I have contacted many insurance companies and brokers and I have not yet found one that will cover my pre-existing conditions.brbrI am lucky in that I only need health surveillance. There are some people whose treatment is going to stop abruptly and they risk dying. I am also lucky because I follow the expat internet forums. No-one from the UK or France has contacted me and there will be a lot of people who still don’t know about these healthcare changes.brbrThe retrospective application of these conditions is unfair, discriminatory and immoral. It threatens people’s ability to continue to live in France and it threatens those who are weakest; those who are excluded by the insurance industry; and those who are too sick to work. br

Posted by Diane Bushell on November 07, 2007 at 05:04 PM GMT #

To keep it short there are many of us who have chosen to live in France and who have taken on board the rules and regulations that were in force AT THE TIME OF ENTRY to France. We have built our lives and budgeted for our needs based on this. It going to devastate many families if the French authorities are now going to pull the rug from under those people who have HAD to go on the system when it suited the French authorities. Many of us also have children in education and it would be terrible to disrupt them. It will be worse for those people who have an excisting health condition as private health care companies will not take them on. brThis issue must be brought to a hasty conclusion and those of us already on the system should be allowed to pay and carry on as before.

Posted by Theo Hunt on November 08, 2007 at 09:01 PM GMT #

Mr MURPHYbrbrThanks for your brief note. Good luck with the continuing discussions; and we look forward to your next update.

Posted by NICK GREENWOOD on November 09, 2007 at 12:12 PM GMT #

JimbrbrHeartfelt thanks for your efforts in Paris. We really need you. France is in danger of creating a two tier health regime, Those with 5 years residency will be allowed to join or remain in. Those with less who are already in the scheme will be turfed out. Can this be right? How will I fund the purchase of my diabetic drugs. Or will I start not to treat myself and become more ill, because I cannot afford to buy them. Or will I be hauled away in the dark of night by the Gendarmes, because I am no longer entitled to be resident in France, due to not being able to afford to buy private health insurance. What's the next stage, repossess my house a la Mugabe, and declare me stateless, returning me to UK against my will. It seems a long way off the likely truth, but, if one cannot get private health insurance, because one has a disease which precludes one from treatment under the scheme,then one is an illegal alien, not meeting the criteria for residency in France. Can this really be what the French intended to happen ?

Posted by john southworth on November 16, 2007 at 05:23 PM GMT #

Well Mr Murphy, it's now the "end of the week" when the "important announcement" promised by the French Health Minister was to be made, clarifying the situation for those affected by the retrospective application of this legislation and yet again, there appears to be a deafening, and very worrying silence.brbrTime is running out for many people whose E106 expires in January and it is now imperative that the French Government reveals its hand.brbrbr

Jim Murphy

Minister for Europe

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